Jamie Lieberman is the owner and founder of Hashtag Legal, a law firm for growth-focused creative entrepreneurs. Jamie’s goal is to eliminate the worry and exhaustion that can arise for CEO’s while growing their businesses. 

In this episode, Jamie talks about how you can set up the legal position of your business correctly so you can continue to thrive and some of the legal aspects you need to look at as a CEO. 

In this episode, Jamie also discusses: 

  • How she got started with law and entrepreneurship 3:03 
  • Why you need to hire out in your business 10:18
  • Why you need to hire an attorney as an entrepreneur 14:04
  • LLC vs S Corp vs Sole Proprietor 16:39 
  • How legal needs to change as your business grows 21:01
  • Trademarks and intellectual property 25:28
  • How you can improve the legal position of your business today 29:31

Connect with Jamie Lieberman: 

Website | https://www.hashtag-legal.com/

Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/hashtag_legal/

LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/hashtag-legal-93b42117a/

Podcast | https://www.hashtag-legal.com/the-podcast/

Connect with Danielle:

Website | https://www.kickstartaccountinginc.net/

Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/kickstartaccountinginc/

Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/kickstartaccounting 

Twitter | https://twitter.com/KickstartAcct

Things Mentioned in Today’s Episode: 

Book your FREE strategy call https://www.kickstartaccountinginc.com/get-started

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Full Episode Transcript

Intro  0:00  

Welcome to entrepreneur money stories, the podcast for women entrepreneurs who want to dig into their money stories so they can break free from limiting beliefs around money once and for all. Hosted by Daniel Hayden, owner of kickstart accounting, Inc. This podcast is a series of real conversations about money mindset with valuable and action packed takeaways for the entrepreneur who’s building their abundant empire. Danielle is a reformed corporate CFO who’s on a mission to help rural breaking female entrepreneurs understand their numbers and gain the confidence to create sustainable profits. And now here’s your host, Danielle Hayden.

Danielle  0:40  

Welcome to entrepreneur money stories. Today we had a conversation with Jamie Lieberman. She is the owner and founder of hashtag legal, Jamie has been practicing law for over 16 years and it was a complete wealth of knowledge on today’s show. She has a really unique approach and passion for protecting the legal interest of businesses that has really allowed her and her legal firm to create a diverse and dynamic client roster. I have personally found her in the online community. And I love that she works with other online businesses sometimes joke about this in our conversation today, that accounting and legal can be really difficult conversations and they can feel really stuffy. So it’s really important to find the right people who can speak to you without the legalese, all the jargon and speak to you like you are a person and help you understand what you don’t know. Jamie and her firm are well versed in the struggles and potential pitfalls, all the legal hang ups that haunt the startups and the small creative based businesses, you’re gonna really enjoy this conversation with Jamie. So grab a piece of paper pen and get ready to take some notes. I am just going to acknowledge the elephant in the room, you will hear my dogs barking in the background. I tried to mute as much as possible, but can welcome both my little pups to my conversation with Jamie. So here it goes. Jamie, welcome to entrepreneur money stories.

Jamie 2:09  

Thank you. I’m excited to be here. Yeah,

Danielle  2:11  

we were talking a little bit before we pressed the record, we both are in the online community kind of in the same circle. I’ve been really looking forward to this conversation because I think legal is one of the top three most confusing topics for business owners. You know, I think it’s accounting, legal and financial slash insurance. Do you agree?

Jamie  2:32  

Yes, 100% insurance and get a lot of emails on insurance. Yeah,

Danielle  2:37  

Starting your own businesses is difficult. Running a business is difficult. And one of the things that we always want to be doing on the show is bringing forth experts that can help make these topics a little bit more digestible. So I really appreciate you coming here and helping us do just that. Before we jump in, tell the audience how you get started, especially in this online space? Like where did you come from? And how did you end up here?

Jamie  3:03  

So I’ve been a lawyer for 17 years, which is just every time I say it, I’m like, what?

Danielle  3:08  

That’s cool. Let me recap. Let me recap.

Jamie  3:11  

I’ve been a lawyer since I’m 11. No, I’m just kidding. Um, so I went on a very traditional route. And I’m actually very grateful. When I first came out of law school, I was a complex commercial litigator, I worked big law in New York City, I did all of the things where everyone’s like, Oh, that sounds terrible. And yes, in fact, it was. But it gave me a wonderful foundation. It taught me how to be a lawyer, it taught me the practice of law. And then I kind of had a moment about seven or eight years into my career where I’m like, there has to be a better way to practice law, when that feels really more authentic to me. And so I just sort of left it all and decided, I’m just gonna start my own thing and figure out what that was. I got into the online space, because I was a blogger a very, very, very, very long time ago. So I was in that community for a long time. I had a blog spot. And I wrote about living in New York. And I wrote about being a new mom. And I kind of realized, like, blogging was I enjoyed it, but I didn’t want to monetize it.

Danielle  4:03  

We’re gonna be blogging about legal topics, as well. Okay. Legal, okay. No,

Jamie  4:08  

It was literally just for me, like it was my creative outlet when I was in law school, and then subsequently, just living in New York to take photos and write and I just, I loved it, but I knew I didn’t want to monetize it. But in doing so, I became involved in the blogging community and quickly realized about 10 years ago, wow, this is gonna be an online world. And so that’s actually how I sort of parlayed into legal services for that online world because I started working for a company that ran conferences for bloggers, and then they asked me, it was like nine years ago. Can you give a talk about legal issues for bloggers, and I was like, huh, I can. And there it was. We’ve since grown to work with lots of different online businesses, lots of different businesses. Some are online, some are not. But that’s really where we got our start. And it’s like, the minute I gave that talk and started meeting people in the industry, I realized really quickly I know exactly What I want to do and I want to work with entrepreneurs, I want to work with business owners who typically run away from the law.

Danielle  5:08  

Yes, there’s so much to unpack there. We heard from a lot of our clients when they made that jump from corporate entrepreneurship. There’s a lot of money mindset work that goes into that. How did you make that decision? How did you decide to make that jump?

Jamie  5:21  

It was a huge jump, I tend to be somebody who really has the mindset of like, I’m just going to make it work. So while I made the jump, I freelanced, I found many years ago, there was a company, they’re still around called a montage legal network. They’re wonderful. And they really match up lawyers who are looking for freelance legal work with law firms who need extra help. So yeah, so I just did that to make money to make ends meet to make sure that I could continue to do what I was doing while I was launching this business. And so I just started freelancing, I wrote, I was also a professor at Seton Hall Law School. So I was doing that work. And I just sort of smushed together a whole bunch of jobs, while leaving the time to create something of my own. And so I just worked a lot is what I did. And I’m also when we talk about money mindset, I’m a saver. So I am constantly saving money, I always have to have like, I have way too much money that sits in cash. I know this about myself, it comes from childhood, we can unpack all of that, but I just saved as much as I possibly could. So I sort of always had that safety net. And I knew and so eventually, as my work grew in the law firm, I scaled back the freelance work. And eventually I remember that very final time where I said, I don’t need to do this anymore. And I shut down that part of the business and went full fledged into my own law firm and legal services that way, was there

Danielle  6:41  

any specific numbers that you were looking at that told you? Okay, now, I’m done with this, I have enough money or revenue coming in? Because that’s the big question. We hear from people both that I want to make a change, do I have enough revenue? Or I want to leave my nine to five? I’m doing this on the side? How do I know what’s the right revenue number?

Jamie  6:59  

So it’s a little easier for me, I think, because my time is valued by money. So when I knew because we charge billable hours, right, so lawyers, it’s quite easy to quantify that. So when I got to a point where I didn’t have time to take those jobs anymore, because all my other hours were filled up with actual billable legal work, that’s when I knew that transition for me was actually much easier. I think that a lot of people who maybe have certain revenue thresholds, but their revenue is not billed to, you know, an hour or time whether it’s service based or product base. So for me, it was a little bit easier. I really didn’t do it as much based on revenue. But I did it based on my time where I’m like, all my time and effort needs to be going into this business and I am seeing a return on it. I am taking money back from it. So I know that I need to sort of give this up because my hourly rate for the consulting work with other law firms was much lower than my hourly rate for that’s what I was going to ask next. Yeah, much lower. So I knew at that point, like it was a bit of a no brainer for me. But I don’t know that everybody, unfortunately, has that easy line in the sand the way that I did.

Danielle  8:07  

Well, everyone’s experiences are a little bit different. And I think it’s important for service based businesses to hear that I want to unpack and you made a comment there about childhood, right? So what was the tote around money? Because I think, you know, we all have these money, mindset issues that carry it with us in our business. And it affects the way we make business decisions. And it’s really interesting, because I came from corporate as a CFO. And so I didn’t really understand that there was a money mindset. And over time in working with clients at kickstart accounting, I realized that that is the number one reason that we are making the business decisions that we’re making. And I think it’s important for us to normalize that. So what was the tone around money? How did you identify that you’re a saver because of that?

Jamie  8:45  

Oh, I mean, I just grew up with very little. So I just grew up with the mindset that I didn’t ever want to be in that boat again. And so I knew like I put myself through school, I put myself through law school, I worked full time, while I was in law school, went to law school full time and was on scholarship. Like I just knew, like I had to make the ends meet. And I didn’t want that same experience for myself. So that’s how I am a saver. And it’s very easy for me to trace that back to just being a kid who didn’t have a lot. And so yeah, that’s really where that comes back. And I have to remind myself of that all the time when I’m, you know, squirreling away money in like savings. And my husband is like, you need to stop. Yeah, you need to invest this, we need to move this around. And I was like, No, we must have so much savings. So that was certainly something that I had to work

Danielle  9:34  

through. Okay, so he has a little bit of a different investment philosophy than you.

Jamie  9:39  

You know, it’s so interesting. We came together where I was fully just saving money constantly for like a short term. He had no short term savings, and everything was long term that man has been saving for retirement since he’s like 20 years old. Right. And so we came together really well because we complemented each other and it made a lot of sense, but it was just so funny. I was never thinking long term. It was all thinking in the moment like, I must have six months of living expenses, or I don’t know what I’ll do. I’ve slowly gotten through that. I’ve worked through a lot of that. But it still rears its head sometimes.

Danielle  10:09  

While the money mindset always makes us think, Oh, I’ve done the work. But no, it’s a job, no matter what. How does that affect how you’re making business decisions today?

Jamie  10:18  

Yeah, I think that one of the biggest mistakes that I see clients make that I did myself, I mean, I’ll be the first one to say I’m not infallible just because I do this for a living doesn’t mean that I don’t make mistakes sometimes it is too slow to hire, right? Like, my fear is always just like, Oh, my God, if I add to payroll, and understand that my payroll is heavy, paying licensed lawyers is expensive. And so every time I add a licensed lawyer, it’s a big deal. And so I sometimes wait too long. So I need to pull the trigger faster on that. And so that really is where my struggle is a little bit, those hiring decisions where I’m like, no, no, we’ll figure it out. But you can’t figure it out. Like if you’ve got to hire you have to hire.

Danielle  10:57  

I think that’s the number one question that we hear from clients is, you know, can I hire and I I’m always telling our clients, I’ve never heard somebody tell me, I regret hiring too soon. Everybody always says I regret waiting too long. Yeah. If you

Jamie  11:11  

are asking if I should hire, it’s too late. That’s my philosophy. You already know, you know, you should have hired already, you know that you are stretched too thin, you know, things are falling through the cracks. As soon as we speak that sentence, it’s too late to hire it. Yeah.

Danielle  11:26  

Is there anything else that you have any other experiences that have gotten you comfortable with hiring or tool attract the mindset, or a number that you look at or anything that we can share that maybe somebody can pull away? Like, I’m going to use that next time?

Jamie  11:41  

I really think it is when you start even before, hopefully. But when you start saying to yourself, Man, I wish I tend to do that, or that’d be a great project, but who’s going to work on it? Or, you know, I want to a year from now, I want this to be my goal, how am I getting to that goal, and you realize I need more manpower? A lot of times, you know, when things fall through the cracks, it certainly can be processed. But a lot of times it’s just another human. And so for me, it’s less around the dollars. And it’s more around like, I mean me because I’ve been in business for so long. And I talk to people so regularly that I can spot it a mile away. But the number one thing that I hear from clients is when they say oh, man, I wish I tend to do that. Or I’m thinking about doing this, but I’m not sure. And I’m like no, you want to do it. You know, you’ll figure it out. You’ll get it done.

Danielle  12:30  

Alright, let’s dig into some of the most common legal issues for business owners. What are some of the things that a small business owner entrepreneur should be doing in terms of legal that we’re not thinking about or that you commonly hear from your clients?

Jamie  12:45  

Really, the number one thing that I see is we wait until there’s a problem. And I get so many phone calls where Oh, I pulled this contract off the internet. And it’s worked really well. Until now. It’s being reactive instead of proactive as small business owners, the legal line item, it’s not sexy. Much like accounting. It’s not exciting.

Danielle  13:05  

We’re normally lumped together and we our income statement, because for a reason.

Jamie  13:10  

We are profit centers for you, though both legal and accounting 100% profit centers, you know, I know it’s exciting to get new branding, to get a new logo and to get a new website. But I promise you all of those things, they’re not going to make you money if your foundations aren’t set. So not being proactive. Even if it is just sitting down for 30 minutes investing 30 minutes with a lawyer to do a strategy session, I do it all the time clients come in the door, they’re like, I don’t even know what I need. Let’s sit down for 30 minutes, I can spot that in no time at all, I talked to people all day every day, spent 30 minutes, just figured it out. And even if that means you set a plan, because you need to pull a budget together, you need to figure out where the resources are going to come from, you know, three months from now you are going to get your contract revamped. Or you’re going to finally file that trademark application, whatever that looks like. But you need a plan to be reactive. It’s honestly more expensive.

Danielle  14:04  

I’m with you. Give the audience some scenarios in which they would hire an attorney because I also hear that I know a lot of people use a Legal Zoom contract or something that goes past the contract. So what are all the things that you handle with your clients that would go into a legal strategy because some people don’t even know, like, if people say to me, I was told I need to hire an accountant and an attorney. I don’t really know what any of you are going to do for me.

Jamie  14:30  

That’s a great question. I love that. So we start with your business formation. If you are forming, you know, you certainly want to talk to both a lawyer and an accountant about your corporate entity, an LLC Corporation, taking S corp status. If you have a partnership like single member LLC it’s quite easy to fill out a form and file yourself but you should have an operating agreement. If you’re in a partnership, you need a partnership agreement. And so having that conversation like if we’re filing for If we’re filing and we want to take S corp status, we need to decide are you going to file an LLC and take S corp status? Are you going to file for the Corporation, which has a lot of corporate governance around it? Like there’s a lot of conversations that I think are worthwhile with both your lawyer and your accountant when it comes to entities. And it’s a strategy that’s specific to you. There’s no one size fits all contracts are another area, whether it’s your services agreement, your vendor agreements, your contractor agreements, your employment agreements, any kind of agreement, however you’re monetizing, whatever it is that you’re doing to make money, you absolutely, I’d be shocked if you told me you didn’t have a single contract in your business. Contracts are another really good area and taking your friends’ contracts to get a contract from the internet. Again, there’s really no one size fits all. I can’t stress it enough. Everybody has their own issues. And I talk to clients in the same industry all the time. And all their contracts are different, because their businesses are different. Intellectual property is another area trademarks and copyright, you know, knowing what it is that you’re creating, where your assets are, and how to protect them. And then if you have an online presence, website, terms, privacy, if you’re collecting data through your website, you got to tell everybody what you’re doing and make sure you have a good privacy policy. There’s loads of areas for hiring contractor employees, knowing the difference between a contractor and an employee, if I can keep going and I don’t want people’s heads to explode. That’s why I don’t believe in fear. This shouldn’t be a scary thing. The reason we have fear is because we don’t have education or knowledge. So just educate yourself because every business has its own unique legal issues. And so spotting those with a lawyer is really the way so you kind of don’t know what you don’t know. But those are some really common areas that you know, new business owners may work with an attorney on.

Danielle  16:39  

Awesome. a few questions that I get all the time from an accounting perspective, because it’d be interesting to put a legal perspective on it. We get questions all the time on the difference between LLC Corp. S corp, I always give them our perspective, from a tax perspective and how we would treat things from an accounting perspective. But from a legal perspective, what is the difference? I’ll even have a sole proprietor there as well, what is the reason to choose one over the other in a super summary?

Jamie  17:05  

Yeah, sole proprietor just means you’re doing business as yourself. That’s the easiest thing to set up. You’re basically like a 1099, freelancer and that income, you just have to report it. Hopefully you have some expenses against it. That’s simple. There is no difference between you and your business, though. So there’s no liability protections. And so I tend to shy away from sole proprietorships. Because why would you want your business assets and your personal assets intermingled, it just doesn’t make any sense if you form an entity, like we talked about, and we’re really only going to talk about LCS, or corporations, because there’s lots of others, but those are the most standard and the ones that most entrepreneurs form that’s going to separate you from your business, an LLC, that is really the one that I tend to favor. And LLC is a limited liability company, it’s quite easy to form. If you don’t have a lot of different partners or shareholders, you know, there’s no shares in it. It’s just members and membership interests. There’s not a lot of corporate governance around it the way there are with corporations, and big corporate government. And so I mean, like a board of directors, you have to have bylaws, there’s a lot that goes into a corporation, it’s pretty heavy. And so you need to have Yearly Meetings, and there’s a lot that goes into a corporation. So I tend to recommend LLC if LLC is can be taxed as an S corp, because an S Corp is actually not a legal entity, it’s a tax status, people get very confused, I’m going to form an S corp, you can’t. It’s just a tax status. It’s a great one for a lot of people, but an LLC, you have to talk to your accountant, but it’s a form that you file with an IRS in order to be taxed as an S corp as an LLC does make some changes. Because as I’m sure I’m telling your audience, you’ve probably told them you have to be paid as an employee if you take S corp status, and there’s other complications with it. Whereas LLC members who are taxed just as a member of an LLC, you take distributions. So there are different things to think about. But an LLC is just so simple, and it’s much easier to keep up. Corporations are appropriate. Sometimes you have a lot of different owners like shareholders, if you’re looking for outside funding, you’re looking to go do a startup and you want venture capital, you’re forming a Delaware corporation, that’s just pretty much standard. Those are the different sorts of factors that go into things like, what are your long term plans? How many people are there? What kind of services are you providing, but really, the main goal from a legal perspective is to just separate out your business and personal assets, give some legitimacy to the business and make sure that you’re just limiting your risk. That’s

Danielle  19:29  

perfect. Just to add on anyone who listens on a regular basis. You’re like, yeah, yeah, we got it. But this is why we preach so often about separating your business and your personal when you form an LLC or a corporation, you are separating your business and your personal and if you turn around and commingle everything, you’re going to have a really difficult time proving the point that you are separate from your business. Do you agree with that?

Jamie  19:51  

Absolutely. We call that piercing the corporate veil. That’s the legal term for it. Just because you form a company does not mean that you just get to like hey, hang out, you actually have to maintain that corporate formalities as we call it, which means separate books and records, you’re not going shopping with your corporate credit card, you are genuinely getting paid from your clients into your corporate business. You’re keeping good books and records, you’re taking distributions or payments as you should. They’re documented, you’re not living in and out of it, you’re not doing crazy things like buying a whole bunch of stuff on your corporate credit card for your kids, you just don’t want to be doing any of that, keep it all separate. And then that way, you can make sure you can maintain that separate liability that’s really important that you have good books and records. Absolutely.

Danielle  20:40  

Awesome. All right, that is for our startup business owner. As we continue to grow. We talked a little bit about this, I like to think of entrepreneurship in kind of buckets, the under 100k, we’re startup mode, one to 252 50 to five, what are some of the things that as we grow, we hit six figures, we’re gaining traction in our business, how do the legal needs change?

Jamie  21:01  

So the bigger that we get, we obviously add staff. So that’s a big one, we got to consider, are we hiring contractors? Are we hiring employees, and are we characterizing them correctly, just because you want to hire a contractor doesn’t mean you actually are hiring a contractor. So it is really important that you make sure that you legally characterize the people that you’re hiring correctly, it doesn’t matter if you’re paying them a small amount of money, if they’re doing work that should be characterized as an employee, you just gotta get that opinion. So I know that lawyers are a great source for this, we can sort of help guide you through that process. And I’ll talk to my clients about how they make that decision. It is very specific and is very fact specific, every state is different. So it is really important that you at least understand that that’s a really big one for the scaling. You know, the other thing is we’re gonna have more disputes, I hate to say that, but as you get bigger, there’s just more potential for issues. So we have to be able to be willing to deal with an unhappy customer. Because if you think about it, when you’re zero to 100, almost all your clients if you’re a service professional people, you know, and then you get to 100 to 250. And it’s like friends of friends, and then you get above 250, and it’s strangers. And so all of a sudden, they don’t know you that well, and disputes start to happen. I talk to clients all the time. I’ve been in business for 15 years, I’ve never had a problem until today. All right, well, we’re here today, let’s handle it, just sort of being prepared for that. And that means having really good contracts. That means setting really good boundaries with your clients, with your customers, with your vendors. And that’s all contracts are their boundaries. And you’re setting expectations early on. And you’re very, very clear about what you need, what they need, what you want, what they want. And we have a meeting of the minds. So that’s the other big area where people get a little blindsided because they’re like, oh, my gosh, everything was so great. When I started out,

Danielle  22:47  

I appreciate you saying that contracts are just boundaries. It’s a way of establishing boundaries with our clients, with our customers, with our team members, our vendors. So sometimes the word contract, I remember when we started in the accounting world, we call them engagement letters. And I would say this word to clients, and I could immediately see people starting to like shrug their shoulders, I mean, it really is if we can break down these big words of engagement letters and contracts. And for you, as a business owner saying to yourself, I’m going to set a boundary with this person, this individual with this company. And I’m going to set up protection, it makes it more digestible to be able to implement that.

Jamie  23:28  

Also, it’s for both of you, it doesn’t just not just protect the business owner, it protects the client. To me, it’s a gift because a lot of people come to me, they’re like, my clients are never going to sign this. I’m like, great, you have the wrong clients. Really, it is a gift. If a client comes to you and says this, this contract is too long, I don’t understand it, I can’t read it. Because they are a red flag, I promise you, the right clients are savvy enough and understand that contracts need to be signed. It’s just an excuse. And it’s just something that we’re afraid of. But contracts are so important. And I will tell you that if it scares your client, then you know they may not be the right fit for you. Or you just may need to spend a little bit more time with them. That being said, I do caution like not to explain your contract to your client. You’re not a lawyer. You don’t want to give the wrong information. But it is really important to feel comfortable and confident in handing over a contract. It’s not a negative thing. It doesn’t mean that you don’t trust each other. It doesn’t mean that everybody doesn’t like each other. This is business and you just have to have this stuff written down so that when there is an issue, you have something to go back to and makes it much easier.

Danielle  24:33  

Hey podcast lovers, I hope you’re enjoying another amazing episode of entrepreneur money stories. I had to interrupt to tell you about an exciting new tool we recently launched. If you’ve been wanting to learn how to start managing your business finances, but don’t know where to start, then visit kickstart accounting inc.com/bootcamp to receive our new five day video bootcamp series, you’ll receive a video each day that will take you from accounting overwhelm To money powerhouse. So you’re ready go to kick start accounting inc.com/bootcamp. All right, that’s an episode that taught me a little bit about trademarking and intellectual property. That can be, again, a lot of gray area for business owners. I hear a lot of people say I need to, and I’d like to hear why they think that right? What are your experiences around that? And is there a business size or time that’s best for somebody to start thinking about that?

Jamie  25:28  

Yeah. So there’s a couple of different things you have to think about with trademarks. Trademarks are your brand, right? They’re the rights that you have in the brand that you’ve created. So it’s the name you do business under, I’ll use myself as an example. Hashtag legals, my trademark, right. And I provide legal services under that trademark, the thing that you have to think about is one, when you’re launching, can I use this name, I can’t tell you the number of people I know who have spent lots of money, I’m talking 20 $30,000 in branding, and no one ever bothered to check the name, they come to me. And I’m like, that’s taken already. So check your name, make sure you’re not infringing on somebody else’s trademark, that’s key. So make

Danielle  26:08  

sure the name is clear. You need to work with an attorney to make sure it’s clear.

Jamie  26:11  

My recommendation is yes, trademark law is very, very complex. It is an area and you should work with an experienced trademark lawyer, not just any lawyer, trademark, and copyright are some of the most complex areas of the law. So it’s really important, you have an experienced trademark attorney that you’re working with the other thing that you have to think about. So let’s say your name is clear rate, you’re ready to move forward. How will you feel if somebody pops up later, and they are using a name that’s the same or similar to yours in connection with goods and services that might be the same or similar to yours. If you don’t care, you’re like, Nah, it’s fine, then you don’t need a trademark application or trademark registration. Because you don’t care. If you care. If you want the ability to stop others from using your trademark, or stop others from using a name that’s the same or similar to your trademark, then you should consider trademark registration. And you should do it sooner rather than later. Because I will tell you that even if you start using it, if somebody comes in, uses it later, and they got that trademark registration before you do, while you do have certain rights, it’s way harder for you. And we’re making it much, much, much harder. If we don’t file that application and get that registration early on. The longer you sit on it, the more crowded the market can be. Other people may go and get that registration. And then you’re having to go in and negotiate with other people, you’re having to try to cancel marks, it becomes really messy and really expensive. So my recommendation is if you are attached to your name, if you know that it is something that is eligible for trademark protection, which is you know, you need to talk to an attorney about that, then is worthwhile at least going to a lawyer and saying is this worthwhile for me to protect this, a good trademark attorney will say to you yes or no. And then investing in it. If it’s something that’s really important to you,

Danielle  27:55  

you might not think today that you care if somebody comes in and using that same name, your space are different space. But over time, you’re surprised right agreement really changed. So

Jamie  28:06  

it happens all the time. Yeah.

Danielle  28:08  

Again, I think we hear a lot of the same comments. I’m scared of my account. I’m scared of my attorney. How about your firm makes you different and more approachable than working with other attorneys. I know we’ve all had our fair share of experiences. And it’s like sweaty palms and dread talking to you, I ignore you tell me a little bit about that experience.

Jamie  28:25  

You shouldn’t feel that way. So the answer is if you do feel that way about your lawyer, your accountant, you’re with the wrong lawyer or accountant, they should be a partner to you, they should absolutely be a safe resource. And you should feel really good about talking to them. Because you should feel like anytime I get on a call with someone and they say to me, man, I feel so much better after we spoke, that’s a win. That is 100% our goal. It’s why I started the firm, it’s our absolutely underlying value. And philosophy is we’re here to make you feel better. We are here to make you understand what’s going on, and try to come to a way to either protect you or if there’s a dispute tried to get you to the end result. You know, I’m not magic, I can’t change things or fix mistakes that were made. But we can do our best to get you to a place where you’re in a much better position. And our goal is to explain things easily. Clearly, we’re not using a lot of legalese. We answer emails I get on phone calls with clients like, it should feel easy. It should not feel painful. And so if you’re having that experience, you should look into finding a new attorney because you shouldn’t feel that way. And I know a lot of people do.

Danielle  29:31  

I think it’s just you don’t know what you don’t know. Right? It’s becoming educated and having that that resource. So I appreciate that. I believe in action. Right. So I spent a lot of time listening to podcasts. And I know a lot of our listeners too, as well. So if there’s one action tip that somebody can get off the show right now and go and take to improve legal position of their business, what would be one thing that they can do right now?

Jamie  29:54  

Just book a strategy call with a lawyer. That’s it. Figure out what you don’t know figure out what you’re doing great. figure out where you may need a little bit of help and get a long term legal strategy.

Danielle  30:04  

Awesome. Where can the audience continue to stay connected with you and learn more about you and your firm? Yeah, so

Jamie  30:09  

you can find us on our website, which is hashtag all spelled out dash legal.com. I post a lot on Instagram. And we do a lot of information on Instagram. So we’re hashtags spelled out underscore legal. And I also have a podcast, we do seasons, and we do like a deep dive into particular topics. So we’ve done conflict management resolution, which a lot of business owners, particularly those above the 250 are facing this season is all about negotiation, which anybody from zero to multiple, eight figures needs to deal with. So it’s called the on business podcast. And you can see links to it on our website as

Danielle  30:46  

well. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here and sharing your expertise.

Jamie 30:49  

Thank you.

Danielle  30:50  

Well, that’s a wrap. I hope you enjoyed today’s conversation with Jamie. I want you to really think about the action task that we talked about at the end of this podcast. It is so important to evaluate what you have in place today. And if some of these topics are things that you’ve been avoiding, or you know you need to do, I want you to contact Jamie or another attorney that can help you put the pieces in place over the years a kickstart accounting Inc we’ve seen so many clients not have the right contracts or, or things in place to help protect them and and the people who work for them. And so I cannot encourage you enough to pause this podcast, press stop, schedule that call, evaluate what you have in place and make sure that you’re getting these things in place. This has to be a goal to you before you hire that first employee or before you hire that next employee, that you have the right contracts and the right things in place to protect you as a business owner. We’re all in it for the long game. All right, I want you to stay in this entrepreneurship game with me for the long run. And we have to be able to protect ourselves in order to be able to participate and in the long run. If you liked today’s episode, we ask one thing we would like for you to like, subscribe and leave us a review. That is how the algorithm will let other people know about this show. If you could share with one person who you know could use this as a resource in their entrepreneurship journey. It would mean the world to us. We are here to be a resource for you. If you have a guest or topics that you would like to hear on the show. You can email us at support at kickstart accounting inc.com to share those experts and or topics with us and we would be honored to have them here on entrepreneurship money stories. Thank you for your time. I don’t take it for granted and I’m looking forward to sharing more with you next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai